Thursday, March 21, 2013
First Interactive Blog Post
So here's the story about Derby Line, the town in Vermont that straddles the US-Canada border. In your response try to think critically about what we have been saying about space and place and constructed spaces. Feel free to give opinions, quote readings we've done, pull from class discussion, link to other related stories--whatever seems appropriate!
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No one wants to put up a fence because it’ll disrupt space and the place of the town will be seen as hostile. The people there have accepted being in that space together. It’s what they’re used to. Why should they go through customs just to only be in another space? It’s not like once one is in Stanstead, everything is drastically different. It looks the same. Yes, when one crosses the border and goes into Canada, the history, laws, traditions, and some culture change but it’s basically the same space that one was in physically and visually when one was in the United States. Everyone in those towns does what the government of each country tells them to do, and the people do it. The people are being watched to make sure they obey the border laws. Thus, the government is watching and controlling the people. I wonder what the people would do if they had a say in customs and the border. The article mentioned September 11, and it's interesting to see how the border in that particular space is impacted based on what happened in another space by a different group of people and different ideology.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Megan. That the people of the towns don't want boarders, and they don;t think it will help keep the illegal immigrants out. I also agree with what she mentioned about the space, how people of a different space are effecting the space of that boarder. People don't even realize that they are effecting the space. The customs and traditions might be different in Canada and the United States but the people inside have managed to create a space that unifies them both. Although they come from 2 different places, they don't see it as a barrier. The boarders around the edges with create a place that doesn't allow the people to interact with each other like they used to.
ReplyDeleteI think this is really interesting. After watching all of the boarder war shows on television i always thought that the United States was all fenced in around the boarders. I can understand why these people wouldn't want a fence going through the middle of their town and how hard it would make living in this town. I can only imagine how annoying it would be if you had to get your passport stamped every time you tried to run an errand, not to mention you would need a new passport in about a month. I think the two governments do need to do something to help strengthen security at this point in the boarder especially since it has the attention it does, its scary to think about how easy it would be for someone to pass over the boarder and inflict harm on our county at this point. I think this flaw in the boarder defeats the purpose of having fences around the other parts of the boarder, it's like trying to keep the cold air out of your house but yet be missing a wall. This article made me think about public and private spaces and how we talked about it in class, i think of the United States as being a private place to outside aliens and a public place to citizens of the United States, but in this town its a public space for both citizens which is great for relations between the two countries but yet i doubt the citizens are paying taxes of both counties even though they're utilizing resources from both countries. I think it's great that this city hasn't been divided but i don't understand how they get things done when they have to follow two different policies and ways of life.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you. It's interesting how they are mingled together but probably don't pay taxes for both counties. I find it surprising that both areas have been able to sustain themselves with that.
DeleteI agree that it would be hard having a fence run through the middle of your town. I didn't think of all the passport stamps until you brought it up. You made a good point that running a daily errand could become a hassle. I would like to know how this city has been able to survive while existing in two different countries. The border separates this place, which would probably be just like any other town if it was in a different space.
DeleteI found the article to also be pretty interesting. The two towns have been living in harmony for a long time and I don't understand the need to disrupt it by putting up borders. I agree with the article when it said that we have and must step up our security and that we have to keep posts to look out for illegal immigrants. However, I do also agree with Ms. Richard's statement that she assumed that most illegal immigrants made their way across the border through the nearby woods and farmland. It would seem to be most reasonable to set up border posts in the woods and near farmland to watch for illegal immigrants instead of near residential areas where people are living their day to day lives normally. I don't understand the need to change a space if it has had no problems and the people have been living peacefully together for so long. It's also crazy to think that leaving your home requires going through border control. It sounds like more of a hassle for the residents than helping the immigrant situation. If the people who have been living in their homes are required to go through border control every time they leave, I don't understand how it is helpful. The people have been living there their whole lives and have not been trouble before and they clearly are citizens if they are permitted to live there, so why must they always go through border control? It is clear that both countries are trying to keep both spaces safe and claim the land that is rightfully theirs. However, it is not good that the residents lives are being affected by the two countries decisions. It would seem most reasonable and the safest for these two communities to but border control stations elsewhere instead of near residential areas. The two spaces have been living together peacefully almost as one place, why mess with it now?
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with what you're saying, Taylor. As I was reading the article, all I could think about was "why disturb these people? They seem to be doing alright to me." I think it is kind of ridiculous that these people have to go through border patrol just to get out of their driveways, basically, but I guess that is something that a person would get used to. As much as I think it would be a nuisance to the people in the town, nobody seems so upset with the changes that it's forcing them to consider moving. I guess the people have gotten used to going through the hassle of border patrol and things, and even though this is a bigger step, it doesn't bother them as much as it may bother some of us if Ohio proposed a border between us and Kentucky. I did find Mr. Shbib's comment at the end very interesting, and true. He said, "... Borders go up just before they fall." I really like the fact that he said that; borders can work for a while, but in time they almost lose their novelty and become basically useless.
DeleteI agree with the point that Taylor has to say about the two towns living in harmony. They really don't need to cause more problems by putting the border up. I also really agree with the point Taylor makes about putting up the borders in the woods, theres no reason to disrupt the towns by bordering them. I understand that there are many illegal immigrants, but are those borders that they are going to put up help that much with the problem? I may just be interpreting it incorrectly, but the illegal immigrants will find a way to get in regardless of is this border is put up or not. I liked the point in the article where it talked about how their water is in Canada, but stored in the US, but maintained by Canadian's. I thought it was interesting to see because it shows how close this cities are and how well they work together, I do not understand the point of causing problems if they put up a border. I also agree with Corbins statement of how annoying it would be to have to cross a border every single time you want to go to a grocery store on the other side etc. It seems its causing more problems than just solutions, and I know personally I would hate if they put a border up in my town.
ReplyDeleteGoing off of what Elise said about the water system being shared by the Canadians and Americans I think by documents/laws on borders and where America and Canada lay these are two different places. However by culture, use, and the people I think these border towns are one space. Through traditions in these towns you also see how it is a space. The people that live their were mostly born in the American hospital because of accessibility along with some buildings being in Canada but only accessible from America. It is two countries and two towns that seemingly in many aspects act as one. I think by building a fence for the border you not only make a place not pleasing to the eye but you change a space into two separate places. But I guess that being said over time all spaces and places change meaning to those that experience it. I don't necessarily think the fence will significantly effect the decrease in illegal immigrants but it will effect the space that currently exists between these two border towns.
ReplyDeleteI like how you kind of get to the point that even though by documents these two places are in two different countries, but they act as one. It's a shared culture between the two cities which is a fascinating thing to realize. I also agree that a fence probably wouldn't do much to help the immigration.
DeleteI agree with Elise and everyone else that said putting up a border would cause more harm than good. I feel that as long as the two towns are getting along then there should be no need for a border. Its just like it said in the article that when your neighbor puts up a fence it seems like there is a negative reason for it. As long as there is border control near the border and people have to check in to go from one country to another there shouldnt be a problem. I also find it very interesting that the towns are so close but are actually not the same country, especially if there is a building that is half in Canada and half in the USA that we share. I also think that no matter what we do (if we put a border up or not) illegal immigrants will get through, just like they do between the USA and Mexican border.
ReplyDeleteThat is true that whatever we do illegal immigrants will always find a way to get through because it happens every day even though there is a border between the USA and Mexico.
DeleteI found this article to be very interesting and really made me think about how our borders are controlled. I do not think that the way the police and border control handle the situation in these towns is efficient for any of the citizens and seems like a lot of extra work for everyone involved. I may be dumbing down or belittling the issue here, but I feel like residents in either town could have some easier and faster way of passing through these border control places. For instance, I work at a retirement community back home, and to keep the residents safe from intruders (especially since it is a well known fancy pants place) each resident has a big bar code on the back side window of their cars for easy access to the community. There is a scanner that scans the bar code as they drive up to the gate and lets it know to open because they are a resident, everyone else (even employees) must go through and have their IDs checked by the person running the gate. I feel like this is something that could possibly be implemented to make everyone's lives a little bit easier in those two towns. If a resident has never been in trouble with the police, then they could be granted the privlage to use the service, and it could still record the comings and goings of these citizens. I really sort of fixated on this aspect of the article because I feel like if I lived in either town it would get pretty annoying to go through these places every morning to go anywhere. Also, another question I had was how do they check or regulate people who walk across the border? Do people have to go through the border check people just to walk their dog? Do little kids not get to play with their neighbors across the street because of the fact that they live on one of the roads that passes through both countries? I feel like if illegal immigrants is the main issue here, you aren't going to catch the majority at places cars would stop at, they probably just walk right through. So, long story short, I do not think that borders would do anything for anyone, except to make their lives more of a hassle than they already are.
ReplyDeleteThis was definitely an interesting article and brought different thoughts to my attention. But first I really liked how Carson thought outside the box about ways they can regulate people crossing the boarder. I'm not sure how it would exactly work considering two different countries is a little different then people attending a retirement home but to me it seems a lot better of an idea then putting up a fence or going through boarder control.The walking question he purposed is aslo something good to think about. Many people go on walks/runs, i wonder if this restricts where they can go. I run across many streets in my city, it would be weird not to able to. How would parents try and describe why they can't play with their neighbors? It just seems so innocent and they should not be punished because the houses across from them are in a different country. It was interesting to read how close these cities are considering they are apart of two different countries. This made me think how the world has evolved. Back in the day, these two different cities were probably so different because countries had very different cultures but if you think about it now, so many things around the world are the same, this is partly due to technology and everything being connected some how. I think it is really cool the cities want to keep themselves connected. Also, once they mentioned 9/11 I couldn't help but think how something so long ago still affects things today. History can affect place and space. The governments are trying to make a make the boarder a big deal just because they have a concern with illegal immigrants. Their concern for these illegal immigrants seems like it would disrupt and make these cities lives a lot more difficult.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Corbin. I also thought that from all the border wars shows on television that the United States was protected everywhere. This flaw should have been taken care of years ago. I can't even imagine how many dangerous people have come through that hole in our countries security and caused mayem. I understand that the people of this town dont want to worry about getting their passports out to go across the street but they need to realize that there are millions of people that can be negatively affected by this. The US and Canadian Governments need to come up with an agreement to fix this border problem before it becomes more of a problem.
ReplyDeleteI think that it would be really difficult to decide what to do in this situation. I'm sure that both governments want to keep the people of that town happy and comfortable but that could put the country at risk. I think that America is definitely a private space because you have to have a passport to come here from another country and we have so many borders and strict border control. Although I think that America is very welcoming to people of all countries,that doesn't mean it is a public place because there are limitations on who can come here. It would be nice if the two towns could live without any road blocks because I understand that would feel intrusive and be inconvenient for the residents but I think that they have to understand that America and Canada are two separate private spaces. I think that creating stricter borders in the two towns would be the right choice for the safety of all Americans.
ReplyDeleteI agree that the border would definitely be good for safety. If there is no border people all throughout both countries could get in and out of each country carrying over illegal or dangerous things. It could also protect the safety of the town itself.
DeleteMaybe since the two spaces are so intermingled, either us or canada should just give it up completely to one country but continue to allow the people who have dual citizenship to keep it? Then they would only need to go through customs for something other than what they are looking for in either county. The two spaces seem too interconnected at this point to divide.
ReplyDeleteThat will never happen. It is a good idea however the Canadians don't really care and we do. I would like to think that we wouldn't care but i feel that would draw up some type of controversy between us and all we need is another pointless thing to worry about. I do agree with you though i just don't think things are that simple sadly.
DeleteAlthough this does create a hole in our security as Sam pointed out, think of all of the residents who live in that area. I understand that borders are needed to divide countries and their residents, but what about the people who have lived here for years and their family before them as well? Can government really divide up their property and make them go through customs every time they want to leave the house? This is a tough situation because although the borders are created for safety in order to keep intruders out, what happens when your life is dictated around that small line? I agree with Katie that the spaces are already too interconnected and have history with their people, but measures need to be taken so that these people can live in peace and not have to deal with higher authority every day of their lives.
ReplyDeleteI like how you brought up the question, "what happens when your life is dictated around that small line?" A single line, or border, can made a huge difference in someone's life. It seem's to make it super inconvenient for these people in this small town. I do think that security is important, but this town was never a problem before. They deserve to live in peace without the disruption of the police everywhere they turn.
DeleteI think the United States and Canada should make an agreement to allow people to live freely in the city and be dual citizens. Perhaps a roadblock could be constructed on either the northern or southern fringes of the city to stop potential illegal immigrants. If the immigrants are only passing through, how would it hurt to have the stops outside of the city, away from complicated inner-city areas. For example, If the United States claimed control of the land, then a barrier could be constructed in the northern part of the city, stopping people coming in from the major roads. This would be a prime area to catch Illegal immigrants, without all the added confusion that exists in the actual city. I think it would be very annoying to have to monitor every step you make so that you don't cross into another country, I would prefer the lines to be more simple and clear. However, the likelihood of one of the two countries conceding the land is probably slim. Most countries are not to fond of giving up territory, even if the land is small and useless. People have fought and died over useless tracts of sand and desert in the middle east. I think the game is more of a power struggle, to show that one is not weaker than the other, but strong and assertive. I can't imagine the daily hardships the people in the town must go through in order to live a normal live.
ReplyDeleteI really liked your first sentence in this. It's truly a fascinating concept to allow the people who technically live in two different countries to live peacefully as one unit. This isn't typically heard of but it seems like it's working for them so far.
DeleteI thought this article was really interesting. It's a weird situation between the U.S. and Canada and it poses a lot of problems either way. I think it's kind of crazy how much influence an invisible, not tangible line created by someone years ago to separate land can have on the real, tangible world and society. Because of these border lines, the two towns that share the same piece of land will be separated and the people that have lived there for years and their family before them will be forced to either side of the border. It's a tough situation because on the other hand, as Samuel mentioned, their is a border security problem that it poses for both the U.S. and Canada.
ReplyDeleteI think putting a border up would be more annoying for the residents than anything. They have been used to the way their town has been and if a border would randomly be put up it would change everything. It seems like a small close knit town and that would change if it was suddenly divided. However, if they wouldnt put a border up there then they have to consider all of the other places with similar situations. It is a standard procedure so in a way why should that town be treated any differently. Its a tough situation.
ReplyDeletei think your right, it causes more problems than it does any good. I think it would make this town disappear much like the video of the town in wyoming, i believe it is. People have established lives and homes there and it would be such and inconvenience to them.
DeleteI agree that a fence would be annoying for the residents as well because they're accustomed to having easy access to the other side and if they put up that fence, it would just be a hassle for them. I also believe that this is a tough situation because they have the problem of illegal immigrants but at the same time they don't want to create problems for the two towns.
DeleteI feel that if a border fence/ structure was put up it would cause more problems than good results. It would annoy the citizens on both ends because they're used to having easy access to both sides. It doesn't really seem like there is an all around good solution to end this problem because no matter what happens, someone won't be pleased. Maybe they could just have people guarding the borders just for the sake to be prepared for illegal immigrants, but not to block out visitors. I'm not really sure overall what the best solution would be, but I do agree that it is a potential problem for some people.
ReplyDelete